Away from Keyboard is a show about the cultural history of the internet. Co-hosts Louise and Liam unpack one concept, site, or phenomenon each episode to piece together a puzzle of how we all live together in cyberspace.
In this episode, Liam delves into an obscure, mysterious website, the now-defunct Yvette's Bridal Formal. While on the surface an early online store, there's a lot more to this strange site than meets the eye, as we'll discover.
In this episode we delve into conspiracies, ecommerce, and the sometimes extravagant mystique of the early internet.
Louise Macfadyen: Welcome to Away from Keyboard, the podcast where we archaeologize, eulogize the early internet from the perspective of two kids who were perhaps too online.
Liam Spradlin: Yes, extremely online children.
Louise: Yes, highly online. My name is Louise Macfadyen, I’m a designer.
Liam: My name is Liam Spradlin and I’m also a designer.
Louise: And what is today’s episode about, Liam?
Liam: Today we’re going to talk about Yvette's, a site that is near and dear to my heart and that I think perfectly crystallizes the exuberant energy of the early internet that we so often talk about on the show. And I want to talk about this site first of all because you had never seen it before until I brought it up and I am so excited to introduce it to you and I’m excited to do a podcast episode about it because maybe other people will listen to this and they will not have heard of it and they will come on this journey with us because it truly is a journey. It is like it embodies the sheer exuberance and joy and creativity that I think is like brings up all the feelings that I had while exploring the early internet. But also this is an extremely long preamble, but something else that I want to say before we get into this is that a lot of like commentary and analysis on this I feel like is coming from a place of enjoying how fun it can be to see something weird and then say that it’s weird and have that be the gratification of the whole experience and that’s not what we’re doing here today. I want to take a look at the site with an open mind and look at it closely and see how it presents itself to us and we’re not going to make fun of the site but we are going to be looking very closely and describing what we’re seeing.
Louise: I can barely wait, Liam. Please, take us down this rabbit hole.
Liam: So we’ll start off, I’ll send you a link to the site, Louise. I would like you to click on this link and just describe to me what you see. What is going on, what stands out to you? What are your thoughts, feelings, emotions?
Louise: So, I would describe the overall effect of this site as being similar to when you see photos of Times Square. So there’s not kind of like an organized grid structure to this website, there is a lot of typography and it is all different colors. And I would say the strongest color is pink throughout, but really there’s everything. And then like behind this text is the background of the page. The aesthetic becomes, you know on this first page maybe slightly slightly stranger but maybe still retaining the weirdness of Times Square. I can see what I think is the sign, a photo of the sign of the store. I can see some what is almost certainly Microsoft Paint art because I recognize the distinctive spray gun aesthetic. There’s a photo of a plane, a rack of clothes and there’s also like an 18th century painting of a woman holding a ferret. And throughout it you see the word Yvette quite a— am I pronouncing that right, Yvette?
Liam: Yeah.
Louise: Yeah, Yvette. I think the first thing if I could sum this up in a word, it would be two words and it would be “a lot” is how I would summarize this.
Liam: A lot. Yes. Okay. So, okay just going a little bit more into the site structure. The site has over 200 pages.
Louise: 200 pages? Sorry, continue. What?
Liam: We’ll break it down further. If I recall correctly because I generated like an XML sitemap from this just to see like what was going on, about 60 of those pages are linked on the homepage itself to give listeners who might not be looking at the site an idea of just the sheer number of links that are everywhere on the site. And I want to talk about that a little bit because the sitemap that I generated looked like a broom. You have like the homepage at the top and then hundreds of other pages sprouting out of this big horizontal layer at the bottom where all of them are on equal level. But the structure of the site and the way that these pages like end up overlapping and intersecting and like leading into one another is like part of the magic I think because it has despite its extremely broom-like appearance I think the navigational structure of the site is kind of genius for two main reasons. The first reason is the pink links. And this is why it was interesting to me when you opened up the page and you noted the amount of pink that was happening on the page. It’s actually not an accident. The pink links on the site that’s a concept unique to this site and the pink links guide you back to the pages that are actually about formal wear because this site is, believe it or not despite all appearances, a website that’s meant to advertise a bridal formal shop in Panama City, Florida.
Louise: Have you ever been to this place in real life, Liam? Does this place exist?
Liam: Unfortunately I think we’ve run out of time. I don’t think it exists anymore. But we’ll get back to that in a second so just pin put a pin in the formal wear shop in Panama City, Florida. Other links to other pages of the site are sprinkled around either contextually so they’re like inside the content of each page or they’re given as callouts that are like free floating in the layout. So you’ll see like highlighted text and it will have a CTA that says please click here and then some descriptor like psychological thriller please click here or something like that. The second thing is that the pages are linked in ways that take you on side paths from one topic to another throughout the site and that that can take you in circles, it can take you down to dead ends, it can send you tumbling down holes. Every time that you visit the site I feel like it’s a unique experience and you see different content and I think that’s extremely powerful.
Louise: Can I tell you, this makes me think of like Meow Wolf, which I feel like we’ve spoken about before, or just like during COVID people tried to make escape rooms work online. The thing that I think I love most about this is that it still achieves that like psychologically confusing and engaging thing but with just completely like baseline internet like CSS and HTML.
Liam: It’s really the the “name one thing in this photo” of websites.
Louise: Yeah. Yes.
Liam: But like that is so such a powerful point because yeah like there’s nothing that sophisticated about the actual code of this site and yet it has this ability to like take you on completely unique journeys every time. So but continuing on like the content of the site because there’s a lot, the pages, again there are over 200 of them, the pages fall into five categories that I could identify. First is bridal slash formal, these are the pages that are actually about the shop and its products and services. And honestly this category is probably the smallest most fractional category compared to the rest of the site. The other categories include visual art, poetry, recipes, and a category that I’m going to call “lore” which contains everything from stories that describe alien abduction and demonic possessions to a framework for embracing and extending your creativity that borders on spiritual I would say. And and so for now I want to start with this lore category because I think it teaches us the most about the rest of the site and will help us like understand what’s going on here as we dig into the history of it and the creator.
Louise: This website this website just made me download something and now I think I have a file.
Liam: Oh yeah. Yes. Okay let’s divert to talk about this because what you will find if you visit this on a modern browser is that your computer’s going to have a lot of new MIDI files and that’s because the original incarnation of this site had invisibly embedded MIDI files on almost every page and this could be anything from like classical string music to bagpipes to I mean any number of things. There were like many kind of public domain MIDI songs just everywhere. Occasionally you can still see a little like controller somewhere if you scroll down far enough but a lot of times it’ll just automatically download. But now I’m going to send you a link. This is a page that explains a concept called V8 and I just want you to click on this and you can follow along. And if anything jumps out to you just let me know. But I’m going to read some quotes. V8 so so I’ll introduce it by saying like V8 is a concept that you see pop up again and again on the site and this is the page that’s meant to kind of explain it. The creator of the site says that people who were coming into the shop were asking questions about what V8 is because they saw it on the site. So he created this page. The page says: “V8 is the call sign of open expression among individuals and groups who are exploring what it is to be alive. It is true that in a contemporary reference there is much creativity and diversity throughout our wonderful world.” The page then goes on for a while and eventually like further illuminates to use the site’s language the concept of V8 by saying: “V8 in addition to being a call sign of fashionable, cultural, and artistic progression is a kind of esoteric symbolism and code. Steeped in ancient energies, V8 invigorates contemporary explorers and adventurers with the inspiration of all the wonder of the ages. V8 is painted into Leonardo da Vinci's The Last Supper as you view the way the two central figures are leaning away from each other you see that they form the shape of a perfect V. And on either side of the refectory in the scene you can easily count four tapestries hanging, four tapestries on each wall, 4 plus 4 equals 8. So that V8 is clearly encoded into the most famous painting on planet earth. Gustav Klimt encoded V8 into The Kiss. V8 is there and you shall certainly be able to find it when you look. An interesting sidelight, V8 often cameos in novels, films and other exciting entertainments.” So the page goes on for a long time. How are you feeling?
Louise: Well okay so the first so like going through V8 I was like that feels familiar and I was wondering why and the first thing I like hit on was this like silkworms weave silk by moving their heads in the pattern of a figure eight and silk starts and I was like what a fascinating way to connect this back to like what you do what you sell because this page is also like the backdrop is like a drawing of a dress. I thought that was really cool and then I also thought it was I think the point where my mouth dropped open was when she acknowledged that V8 is like her name, Yvette, like V and then ette which is eight in French I don't know I forget. And then I went back and saw that V8 is also that fruit drink and I was like oh that’s right yeah V8’s like a vegetable flavored drink. And I you couldn't pick more things to go together in a theory that I love like you literally couldn't do it. Like the Klimts and the vegetable drink and her name I have no words.
Liam: And I knew I knew when I was like writing this part of the notes that you would be into this especially because of the like strong numerological aspect of things because there is the silkworm and there is the painting but then there is also the movements of the planet Venus and how those numbers come into play and it’s really it’s very detailed. And it yeah it reminds me of discussions we have often about the numerology that came after 9/11 where people would send chain emails that would be like I think the example I give that maybe is just apocryphal is like Stevie Nicks, letters of her name she has 11 whatever letters and she was born in September or something so 9/11 and she sang a song that was about 9/11 or like there used to be this like thing that people would always post you know what I’m talking about like they would always share it and this reminds me of this.
Louise: It’s also very it’s very like Lady Gaga is in the Illuminati and I know because of the Telephone video you know?
Liam: Yeah.
Louise: Yeah I didn't even think about that, yes.
Liam: And there’s a broader discussion to be had on like numerology as a reaction to disaster among conspiracy theorists. I think that like not not to like stop your discussion of this because I also want you to continue a lot but one thing I will also say is that like you so rarely see like a theory laid out like this and we talk a little bit about how social media platforms have aggregated independent platforms to make money from them and a lot of the early creators of the internet who made weirder things were the ones who established what the internet became and what users expected from it. And the fact that like social media has become where a lot of conspiracy theories and things emanate from, not to say that I want more of them and I want them on independent channels, but like they were certainly more digestible and more spread out when they were like this. Like to me this is a home spun fascinating kind of like wisdom as opposed to like something that my aunt tells me about over Thanksgiving dinner because she saw it on Facebook and thinks that it’s true. Do you know what I mean? Like this feels to me more harmless because you have to really seek it out.
Liam: Yeah there is something like so much more kind of candid and intimate about seeing a site like this that’s very obviously like kind of a personal page where somebody is like laying all this out and they’re also like in control of the presentation and the styling of it and not using the conventions of a site that already exists.
Louise: Absolutely. It’s actually made me think about the validation that a platform like Facebook gives you because it presents you as a valid form because you don't have to make it look normal, right? You don't have to present something as being extremely rational, it looks rational for you. Whereas this is in some ways like mitigated by the fact that this person for what whatever reason chose not to have a very traditional looking website. Do you know what I mean? So that changed the way that it’s presented.
Liam: I think that’s hugely important because not only does the regulation like by which I mean the regulation of the layout of the platform and the tools that you have for creating content on the platform like not only does that rationalize what you’re saying but it’s also that the algorithmic feed will often position many rational things around the thing that you’re creating giving equal prominence to things that are coming from everywhere.
Louise: Yeah absolutely. So you benefit from something else like a regular an ad that you might see that’s in your feed or something that’s from a news source and you’re situated within that context and you get additional legitimacy from being there.
Liam: So there are many many pages like this on the site in the category that I call lore and some of the pages in that category are broken up into serialized chapters so you can find a few stories that are like broken up into six chapters or so. These tell stories about supernatural or paranormal events involving aliens and demons and something that I want to point out again is that like without context for this site a lot of this reads as kind of a disorganized assemblage of ideas that just like happen to be here and happen to be next to each other. But like as we were just saying there’s like something about the presentation here and I think like in this case it’s like this disorganized feeling that you get kind of creates a tension in the site that for me compels me to want to look further into it to resolve the tension by determining some kind of rational structure among the content that I’m seeing. I want to like
Louise: This it reminds me of like Kurt Schwitters’ like Merzbau like the it’s like a collage of information which is fascinating like I’m back on that homepage and I just clicked something that said Apple Pie Please Click Here and of course I got a MIDI file and I got a recipe for Apple Pie. But it’s that contributes to the overall aesthetic as well. Like I feel like you’re saying this is art I think I agree and I also think that it’s collage at the same time.
Liam: Yeah and and you want to banish the ambiguity of an apple pie recipe being right next to a story about spiritual visitation and like a framework for enlightenment. But anyway so I wanted to start with this lore section of the site and specifically V8 because I think that these form a framework for the rest of the site. And it’s something that the site’s creator has has like put everywhere like all of the content on the site is permeated with these principles so it’s just worth looking at and so I think I have delayed long enough talking about the site’s creator himself. I think this is the right moment. It’s important to know after introducing a concept like V8 and all of the lore behind it like who created that. I think I mentioned earlier that the site was created in 2007 and the person who created it is named Sean Terence Best.
Louise: I know that because of the page that I’m on that says please click here to see the world famous artist Sean Terence Best.
Liam: Yeah okay so you can find him and pictures of him across the site and they often do include the title world famous artist and most of the site it turns out functions to bring Best’s art to the world and it’s all underpinned by this concept of V8 that like explains where the idea to do all of this came from in the first place. There’s a really good interview with Best in a site called Mouthing Off Magazine that was actually from March this year 2021 and they ask him about like how the site came to be so I’ll read a quote that’s been paraphrased or abbreviated a little bit. He says: “The story about Yvette's is that my mother started a bridal salon on Main Street, Harrison Avenue in downtown Panama City, Florida all the way back in 1980. With the advent of the internet, the idea for an online presence for Yvette's naturally emerged. What made site development easy for me was Yahoo Web Hosting because this application provided a graphic user interface to easily select backgrounds, upload photos and video, position text on pages and toss in hyperlinks in any style or location one chooses. I've never been a conformist so I didn't care about the so-called professional appearance or what the internet status quo might assert is the only way to build and maintain a site. I sort of went at it willy-nilly with my own homegrown grassroots flare showcasing the art I created along with my literary compositions and of course fine haute couture high fashions and voilà Yvette's Bridal Formal was born.” So do you have any immediate gut responses to this?
Louise: So I I have some intrigue just personally about developing the understanding of a need for an identity online and what the original purpose of the website was. So like my question is like did he have for instance a discussion with his mother and say you need to be online at that time like were there established like expectations that a website kind of looked like? I feel like I’m thinking about like early early websites that I saw didn't look like this. And I just wonder like did this gradually grow over time into what it is or was there a point where it was a slightly dowdy boring e-commerce site? What I mean to say is did this website have a midlife crisis or did the did this always start and begin this way?
Liam: As far as I know the version of the site that we’re looking at is the site that launched and in fact was the only site for Yvette's Bridal Formal for the entire time that it had a website until the time of recording. So there’s kind of like I wouldn't count this as like an official truth but I’ve heard in my research that originally when the site was created the employees of the store were the first ones to see it besides Sean himself and they warned the owners which would be Best’s mother not to look and but the owners did look. But in the same interview Best says the response from the owners was at first one of shock and dismay yet when the bridal salon filled with people buying gowns and renting tuxedos saying they had come to Yvette's because of the website the shock and dismay swiftly morphed into thrilled appreciation. Profits were rolling in so the owners didn't care what I did with the site as long as I maintained a high sales volume.
Louise: I mean that’s awesome. Like I feel like if you are someone who is a little bit of an independent creator and you do get an opportunity to express yourself like this like my expectation would have been like someone would have been very concerned that this was not going to bring in money. So it’s A really cool that it did work and B also really cool that at no point someone was just like we might make more money if this looked more normal. Do you know what I mean? Which feels extremely common for artists who do if they do even get bandwidth to explore they’re often kind of like mitigated down to something a little more refined so that they I guess mitigating risk like you’re mitigating someone being like I don't know offended or someone perceiving it as like ugly or anything like that. This just feels very like he was quite lucky I feel like to get to work that way because not everyone gets that that chance which is really cool.
Liam: Sure. And I think I think like an important part of the story of the success of this website is the proof offered to us via Yvette's Bridal Formal guestbook. Guestbooks are a topic for another episode that I would love to dig into but this site has a guestbook and there are many testimonials on it. Maybe I’ll just select a couple. One entry says: “I think this website is glorious and Yvette's dresses are very beautiful. It was like stumbling on a rainbow that fell and mixed up all of its colors.” Mia simply says: “Hi I like your website.” Someone called Alexander the Great wrote: “Hello Yvette's, sometimes I have dreams about giant holes in my skin and sometimes I can see electricity keep up the great work V8.”
Louise: Why? Oh my god. This is like an early QAnon thing for sure. Okay so something I just want to bring up also as I’m trying to navigate this website is that like I feel like in the last five years website design no this is older than that but website design has been reliant on the back button. And by that I mean like there is a phase of websites when I was younger that I remember when they introduced their own back button into the UI and that was confusing for lots of reasons and so there was sort of a widespread movement towards just utilizing the back buttons on UI and not messing with like the browser. What I love about this is the only way to navigate it is to use the back button back to the homepage and then go somewhere else. There’s there’s no opportunity to like return to the homepage. There’s like a “home” and then there’s also another “home.” Like it it feels like I’m spelunking you know? And I need to climb back to the central hub. Does that make sense?
Liam: Yes and even like there is the concept of the pink links which in theory get you towards a certain kind of content but yeah there’s no like defined consistent path anywhere which is what I love.
Louise: Yeah yeah it is again back to that comment about like getting to have like an adventure as a both as an artist and as a person who’s experiencing this website like it’s unfathomably complex in some ways because like once you get like for instance I just found a page that only had like 600 or so views on its counter, again that counter could be broken, but I’m sure that like many people have visited this so it’s probably more popular than that. Like it’s amazing this is what I mean to say is this is fascinating. You can cut this out I’m sorry I’m just babbling.
Liam: No it’s great and I think the presence of the hit counter is like an incredibly important piece of provenance in our archaeological project of digging up this website.
Louise: Okay something else I’m sure you have like plans to say because I feel like I totally agree with this idea that like you add as much content as you can but doesn't that kind of like reflect how we think about SEO nowadays, right? Like I don't mean to be an SEO bro but like that’s something interesting because it creates its own market it changes all the time and one of the most emphatic points of SEO is to like describe your site, use language, like often designers get criticized for like wanting to pull language out of designs but SEO asks us to put more semantic discussion in. And this this website actually really really does a great job of that. Like I don't think you necessarily know I can't tell from their homepage how many dresses they have and what those are looking like but I don't think that’s the emphasis either. I think I know that I could go there and get dresses and this website’s not going to sell them to me but I’m going to find out everything else that I could need to know. And I’m going to find like let me see what was that I was about to talk about? Yeah there’s like a guide here for chant that you can do to get health and success and I feel like that is something I don't expect to get from a lot of websites.
Liam: Yeah yeah totally. And also on the note of SEO because like let us be SEO bros for a moment and just point out that like to extend the archaeological metaphor I think there are also like trace vestiges of like early SEO thinking and process. I mean first of all the sheer number of links inside of this site like wow. Second if you look on the homepage like hidden behind pictures and underneath buttons and stuff you’ll find like a lot of text that says like “Quinceanera gown Panama City,” “Crinoline Panama City,” “hoop skirt Panama City,” “Panama City hoop skirt.”
Louise: There’s one on the left hand side that just says Yvette's, Yvette's, Yvette's, Yvette's and then it just starts saying it in capital letters and I feel like that’s like an incarnate chant that I really enjoy.
Liam: Absolutely this and okay but like stay with me for this because is SEO and like keyword packing not a kind of like ritualistic chant in the digital realm to try to invoke some kind of like deified algorithm that we don't understand and can therefore only make stories about to appease our desire to get away from ambiguity?
Louise: Oh I feel like when you say deified algorithm I number one I gave me chills and number two is it not the deified customer which like predates the idea of like e-commerce like the customer’s always right like you worked in service industry I’m sure like I did and like the deification of the customer is what SEO is right? It’s like the user find you.
Liam: Yeah and the customer is an unjust god.
Louise: Yes! Wow. I can see a V8 style numerology post that like discussed this very thing just e-commerce as a
Liam: I love that.
Louise: I’d love that I’d love to see that.
Liam: After this episode I would love to explore like the numerological explanation of spiritual frameworks and conspiracy theories as a medium for unpacking complex ideas.
Louise: Oh like angel numbers and stuff like that? I love that yeah yeah.
Liam: I love all of those things as externalized systems for describing our complex and messed up experiences as humans.
Louise: Well numbers are my favorite because they’re like a signifier that extends into almost every realm of life and so you can have like for instance this is really funny this is a really weird thing. This morning I meant to type something into Google I forget what it was but I instead ended up googling the number 38 and there were like 9 million links that like were about 38 or like didn't just have the number 38 in but just like you know in 1938 so many things happened or there were 38 is like a sports person’s like you know like a sport number. And it just like occurred to me like oh shit like that’s just a number out of the literally infinite number of numbers out there but it has like deep semantic meaning and that crosses over like you’re saying into numerology and into like angel numbers like it’s bizarre to think that these things have endless numbers of associations that we
Liam: Yeah is there anything that carries as much conceptual and philosophical weight as a number? I think not because even if you look at it from a scientific perspective I mean everything is based on physics which can be described using math.
Louise: I don't know enough about numbers to know if like our current usage of base 10 means that there’s still phenomenologically like a number one through 10 in non-base 10 like number systems but yes like to your point like everyone for all of time has known what it means to have one of something instead of five of something for instance like you’re absolutely right that like it is probably the signifier that has most consistently had value attached to it because it itself represents value. Wow interesting point.
Liam: So continuing on Yvette's Bridal Formal, it was a huge success somehow it actually worked to get people to come to a formal shop in Panama City, Florida in the mid 2000s. Amazing like incredible.
Louise: Who came? Tell me about the customer base. Who’s going to this?
Liam: I would love to know more about the customer base but unfortunately all I have is because there’s no Google Maps entry there’s no like you know reviews that I can find so all we have unfortunately is the guestbook. And everyone there is very positive. What was the moderation situation happening on the guestbook? I don't know. But from what I and also like who was able to find the guestbook? Like you have a lot of selection errors I think when you’re counting on the guestbook to get a picture of who was coming to the shop but the guestbook the folks who reached the guestbook and managed to submit something were loving it. And something else that you’ll notice across the site another category pages that I mentioned is the art. You’ll find a lot of different kinds of art. There’s portraits, sketches, 3D render. Variously you will find offers to like commission Best for art pieces and luckily if you would like to see only the art pieces there is a page called distant memory on https://www.google.com/search?q=sean-terence-best3.webnode.com which is his current website. And if you look around that site you will also find a link to Best’s Amazon profile where you will also realize that he is a novelist.
Louise: I knew he was a novelist. I don't know why but I knew Oh you know why? I probably knew because there’s loads of places where it’s like psychological thriller that’s probably why. Yes. There’s like a since we’re talking about like thrillers like one of the metaphors I would use to describe this is like you know in Alien, right? When like the alien like bursts forth from from the host body bursts forth from the host body I should say.
Liam: Yeah.
Louise: Fully formed wearing armor.
Liam: That’s correct. I think this is like that in the sense that this is like the mother’s business and like lots and lots and lots of the website is dedicated sort of like theoretically to the mother’s business but the pink links and the or the occults and like you know that sort of like is like sprinkled throughout and so I just love that like the alien it’s kind of like bursting forth and this guy is just like in some ways like victim to his own interests like he’s like I’m sorry I had to make a website about dresses for my mom but I also had to make a website that was about the Salem witch trials and also about horror and I love that both of those things live in the same place in his mind.
Liam: Yeah. So yes one other guestbook entrant writes: “I especially liked all the secret messages and hidden codes encrypted inside the site.” Which I think is a super normal reaction before you realize that the hidden codes are actually mostly just excerpts from his novels. So when a page on the site tells you and I’m paraphrasing again here because it’s quite a long text but when a page on the site tells you: “Just follow the pink links to lose yourself among the mystical realms of the occult, psychological thrillers, mystery suspense, out of body experience, conspiracy theory, government cover-ups, space alien presence, reincarnation, fantasy dreamscapes, sensationalism and excitement that your heart and mind can possibly stand.” It’s inviting you to get lost in this maze of art, poems and Best’s novel excerpts.
Louise: I mean isn't that so true? And it is also like what archaeology is trying to do is solve those mysteries. And the thing about for instance like if I think about a classic thriller, what’s the one with Mulder and Scully?
Liam: X-Files.
Louise: Yeah like X-Files, their whole thing was that they had no more mysteries, right? But the beauty of this is that like the narrative mystery is going away. I’ve already found like a few links that go nowhere like they just have 404s. So like any numerology any links that go from place to place here that it’s starting to be like lost to the sands of time as the servers start to break down. And I feel like that contributes to that mystery it’s only going to grow weirder as time goes on you know? The intensity of this invitation only grows as the site itself and our memory of it deteriorates.
Liam: Well like it’s have you ever seen Abandoned by Rick McCrank?
Louise: No.
Liam: It’s this show where Rick McCrank who is this former pro skateboarder goes to abandoned malls and he skates them and he goes to all abandoned churches and all these different spots. But he like goes into all these like abandoned spaces and this is making me think of just like how that would be for websites. Like if you were to say like abandoned websites and you were to as we said earlier spelunk through them like what would you find how would your knowledge after going to one be different from how it would have been if you went to it during the time that it was still active and not abandoned.
Louise: Yeah and and like it’s really lucky for us that if you look just below the surface of this site there actually is information that can like give you the keys to unlock this creation. Like we still have time to contextualize all this and hopefully that’s what we’re doing here. But I I want to close like the narrative part of this explanation on something else that Best said in the Mouthing Off interview that I think like really sums up this site’s existence perfectly. He said: “The secret to creating a truly original exciting website is to be yourself. Each person has the great power and privilege to help shape and evolve a fascinating new cyberspace which shall give birth to its very own language and culture and shall in turn fuel and feed an exponentially expanding virtual realm capable of vividly transporting and metaphysically enlightening browsers of all ages, genders, nationalities and spiritualities.” And with Yvette's Bridal Formal, I think Best cracked open the opportunity to advertise ball gowns and stuffed an entire universe inside and for that he actually did become a world famous artist.
Liam: I mean isn't that so true? And it is also like what archaeology is trying to do is solve those mysteries. And the thing about for instance like if I think about a classic thriller, what’s the one with Mulder and Scully? X-Files. Yeah like X-Files, their whole thing was that they had no more mysteries, right? But the beauty of this is that like the narrative mystery is going away. I’ve already found like a few links that go nowhere like they just have 404s. So like any numerology any links that go from place to place here that it’s starting to be like lost to the sands of time as the servers start to break down. And I feel like that contributes to that mystery it’s only going to grow weirder as time goes on you know? The intensity of this invitation only grows as the site itself and our memory of it deteriorates.
Louise: Well like it’s have you ever seen Abandoned by Rick McCrank? No. It’s this show where Rick McCrank who is this former pro skateboarder goes to abandoned malls and he skates them and he goes to all abandoned churches and all these different spots. But he like goes into all these like abandoned spaces and this is making me think of just like how that would be for websites. Like if you were to say like abandoned websites and you were to as we said earlier spelunk through them like what would you find how would your knowledge after going to one be different from how it would have been if you went to it during the time that it was still active and not abandoned.
Liam: Yeah and and like it’s really lucky for us that if you look just below the surface of this site there actually is information that can like give you the keys to unlock this creation. Like we still have time to contextualize all this and hopefully that’s what we’re doing here. But I I want to close like the narrative part of this explanation on something else that Best said in the Mouthing Off interview that I think like really sums up this site’s existence perfectly. He said: “The secret to creating a truly original exciting website is to be yourself. Each person has the great power and privilege to help shape and evolve a fascinating new cyberspace which shall give birth to its very own language and culture and shall in turn fuel and feed an exponentially expanding virtual realm capable of vividly transporting and metaphysically enlightening browsers of all ages, genders, nationalities and spiritualities.” And with Yvette's Bridal Formal, I think Best cracked open the opportunity to advertise ball gowns and stuffed an entire universe inside and for that he actually did become a world famous artist.
Liam: Yeah I don't know. To to wrap things up I just want to echo another entry from Yvette's guestbook written by Bella from Chicago. And Bella from Chicago says: “Lovely site. I’m having a wonderful time here.” Which I think is a super normal reaction before you realize that the hidden codes are actually mostly just excerpts from his novels.
Louise: I love that. Who would leave that on I don't know the New York Times? Who would leave that on any website now? Absolutely no one. I’m like 3 millimeters from the mic right now. Absolutely no one. I miss that.
Liam: Absolutely no one. I miss that.
Louise: Is that not use the best user experience? I also want to draw attention to in the last quote you referenced that he didn't call people users, he called them browsers. They were browsing the internet which I love so much more than calling someone a user.
Liam: Yeah.
Louise: Yeah totally. And also on the note of SEO because like let us be SEO bros for a moment and just point out that like to extend the archaeological metaphor I think there are also like trace vestiges of like early SEO thinking and process. I mean first of all the sheer number of links inside of this site like wow. Second if you look on the homepage like hidden behind pictures and underneath buttons and stuff you’ll find like a lot of text that says like “Quinceanera gown Panama City,” “Crinoline Panama City,” “hoop skirt Panama City,” “Panama City hoop skirt.”
Liam: Yes we were the browsers and we were browsing. You know what I mean? We weren't using and we weren't like doing these other contrived verbs that were invented by other people to describe our desires. We were the browsers and we were browsing.
Louise: Precisely. It’s predicating this need to make money like an economic benefit to the internet as opposed to we talked about this last episode the origins of the internet being this like educational tool for mankind. And then humans like don't really want to spend money and they don't really want to be educated humans are creatures of leisure and the internet is a space of leisure. And so we try all the time to remap it as an educational space and remap it as a place where you’re going to spend your money but truthfully we just want to play what did I play J’s Games for like nine years straight and I didn't get any good grades in school because I just played online games. But I had a great time and I surely left comments that said how much of a great time I had and that’s I think that’s really beautiful.
Liam: It’s yeah it’s supposed to be a place for joy and for sharing and creation and earnestness and exuberance and you’re supposed to have a wonderful time here.
Louise: We should send him a card and some flowers and say thank you for your work to make the internet a weirder and better place.
Liam: I agree. Well this has been a lovely discussion, Louise how are you feeling?
Louise: I have loved this I’m so happy to have learned so much about the history of this extremely obscure but also famous website. I like how it also sits in that same conflicted space and it’s making me think a lot about what I want to record next.
Liam: Awesome. Well how do you feel Liam?
Liam: I feel great because I love this site and I feel like I’ve known about it privately for so many years and just like shared it here and there when I when I get into the space with someone where we can talk about weird internet stuff. And now that space is an entire podcast and I can share it with you and with everyone else in detail for the masterpiece that it absolutely is.
Louise: That’s a beautiful closing. I think we should close on that. That’s when the music starts to come in as you’re saying masterpiece because that was perfect.
